Nardwuar Vs. AFI

Nardwuar: Who are you?
Davey Havok: I'm Davey Havok.

From?
DH: From AFI.

And Davey, who do you have beside you?
DH: This is Jade Puget, also from AFI.

AFI, you're back in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. And now I finally have a chance to ask you about the importance of this place right here [Nardwuar pulls out a book], 924 Gilman. What can you tell me about 924 Gilman?

DH: You know, it's interesting that you should bring that up. We were talking about it a lot on the flight over. We used to haunt Gilman Street as fans of music, and we used to play music there a lot. AFI played Gilman Street I have no idea how many times, but over the years… the first time we played Gilman Street was 1992, I think.

Do you remember the exact date?
DH: I don't remember the exact date.

'Cause every single gig is listed in here [points to 924 Gilman book].
DH: I'll tell you what, though. The gig that I'm talking about, we won't be listed on it, 'cause what we did, it was a show that Rancid played, very last minute, and they called us up and said that they were playing a show and just to come down and check it out. So all the band came to the show, but in between bands we jumped up and used someone else's equipment to play three songs, which is technically the first time we performed on that stage. Later we played our first show that we were actually on the bill — with Rancid,The Parasites and The Hellbillys — at Gilman Street. But we've played there many times. A lot of great bands.

Right now you're too big to play Gilman, aren't you?
Jade Puget: Yeah, it wouldn't be really fun, 'cause everybody gets packed in there and everbody's crammed together. It's hot. No one can move and everybody's getting crushed.

You guys also have the attendance record, don't you? 'Cause I noticed, like, AFI and Fugazi and maybe Jawbreaker set the attendance records
at Gilman.
DH: And Operation Ivy. They all had it. I think the last time we played there we took the Fugazi one, which was the one after Op Ivy. But we haven't played there in years. It became, like Jade said, it became so uncomfortable for everybody involved that I think we stopped playing there in '97. But we're not allowed to play there anymore anyway because we're on a major label. Although I think Green Day snuck back for a gig, didn't they?
DH: Yeah, they played. It was the Adeline show, right? We were talking about that the other day. Yeah, Green Day jumped up on stage during an Adeline Records party that they were having there, which was...

I think that's what's really important is that Gilman helped produce all these really great bands, and it doesn't always get its due, does it?
DH: No, it seemed like maybe about five years ago everybody kind of knew what Gilman Street was, back when you know, Rancid and Green Day and all that. But now you don't hear much talk about it, but it's still going strong.

Do you have a favourite Gilman memory? Like the girl from The Insaints and the banana?
DH: We were just talking about that! That's what we were talking about yesterday! Or, a few days ago, that's why I was talking about Gilman Street… I have a favourite Gilman memory about the girl from The Insaints.

Can you explain about that, Davey Havok of AFI?
DH: I was there for the banana thing, but it was right before the banana event where Marian fornicated with a banana on stage. I'd been outside, and we lived in a small town, and it was, I believe, the first time I'd gone to Gilman Street. I think it was 1991. And I was outside, and this girl with bright blue hair and matching blue-and-white striped tights — and I had a thing for blue hair — was standing on the corner. And she walked right up to me and just started talking to me and said I was cute. I almost died. It was amazing. And then later, she had a banana inside her. And I didn't make the connection until later. But, uh, The Insaints are playing again. Actually, right before we left I saw a flyer for an Insaints show.

I thought she died!
DH: Yeah, unfortunately she did, but I guess they're playing without her, which is very strange.

Well, it's great to continue the tradition!
JP: Yes, I remember a guy named Jeremy Spew that works security there found a dead baby in a dumpster by Gilman and brought...
DH: Not a dumpster. He dug it up.
JP: Oh! I heard it was in a dumpster.
DH: No.

There's a couple baby stories. Wasn't it like, Lint from Rancid dug up a baby and then somebody brought a baby to the actual club.
DH: OK, here's the story. It wasn't Lint. It was Brett [Reed] who found it while they were practising in there, and Jeremy — which he talks about candidly in some of his spoken-word, which is very good, Jeremy's a great guy — was with some friends a few nights prior. Um, they were not in their right frame of mind. And they dug up a very old baby out of a graveyard, freaked out that they had the baby, didn't know what to do with it, so hid it in the then-sound booth of Gilman Street, where bands used to practise at Gilman Street. If you worked there, you could practise on one of the weekends during the day. We used to practise at Gilman Street.
JP: The baby still haunts Gilman Street.
DH: And the baby still haunts Gilman Street. Brett found it in the sound booth.

Get the story straight from AF...
DH: Yeah, AF… I.

And the 924 Gilman book! It has it all in there.
DH: Yeah, there it is, it's all in there. A lot of great bands! You know, I mean, we saw Sam I Am and Jawbreaker and Green Day and The Crimpshrine used to play in there and Filth. You know, all sorts of different scenes. There was a time when bands from all sorts of different genres of music would sell out Gilman Street. You could go see Bikini Kill pack it, you could go see Rocket From The Crypt pack it…

Or The Mentors?
DH: Or The Mentors. I don't know, yeah, The Mentors would pack it!

Playing the same night as The Yeastie Girls!
DH: Yes! Exactly [laughs]. Very, very well said.
One band I really loved and didn't really get a lot of attention was The Ne'er Do Wells. [Nardwuar pulls out a Ne'er Do Wells single]
DH: Ahhh, interesting. I was trying to think of this band.


Who turned into the Hi-Fives!
DH: Right! Didn't they have a connection with Brent's TV as well?

Yes, they did, exactly! I wondered about the connections between AFI here and The Ne'er Do Wells, because there are some.
JP: There is. I was in Redemption 87 and the drummer Gary was later on in the Hi-Fives, which is an
incarnation of The Ne'er Do Wells.

And the drummer Al, of The Ne'er Do Wells?
DH: Al Sobrante later was in, or earlier was in Green Day.

And of course you had some releases on...
DH: Adeline Records, who is owned by our friend Billie, who is in Green Day.

And John here [pointing to Ne'er Do Wells single], his brother was in a band Sweet Baby.
DH: Sweet Baby, right, OK. So Sweet Baby then went to — is there any Green Day connection to Sweet Baby?

I just thought they were hugely influential.
JP: Sweet Children! Which Green Day started out as.
DH: Green Day was first called Sweet Children before they were called Green Day.
JP: They found a dead baby on Gilman Street. A sweet dead baby.
DH: Sweet Baby was called Sweet Baby Jesus prior to being called Sweet Baby, and they have a song called "She's From Salinas," which is near where AFI is from.

And your drummer Gary from Redemption 87 was in the Hi-Fives, who were The Ne'er Do Wells. I love Gary! He's a great drummer!
JP: Gary's awesome! Really nice guy, too.
DH: He's actually currently working on a project with Eric Ozenne from The Nerve Agents as well, right now.

And the guy from Inside Out too, right?
DH: Is Helmet in it? I don't think Helmet's playing with them.

What can you guys tell me about this? Can you clear this up? Rage Against The Machine, were they once a straight edge band called Inside Out?
DH: No. Uh, as you know. I know you know the answer to this question...

No, I don't! No, no.
DH: [laughs] Really? Do you not?

No, please tell me. There's some connection, though.
DH: Well Zack De La Rocha was a singer of a straight edge hardcore band called Inside Out, which included — what is Grandma's real name — Mark! Mark, our friend Mark, who played guitar in Inside Out and was also in Gorilla Biscuits. And he was in that band with Zack, Inside Out, who are a straight edge hardcore band on Revelation Records. And that is the connection to Rage Against The Machine. Uh, Zack is no longer straight edge.

AFI! Jade and Davey. I'd like to ask you about Leopold's Records. What can you tell me about Leopold's Records?
DH: [laughs] Well, Leopold's Records was a record store that, um, we didn't spend much time in. It's in Berkeley, it's on Durant. But Leopold's Records was more urban, if you will.

And you hung out on the steps of Leopold's.
DH: Yes! Once Leopold's Records closed it became Tower.
JP: Are you talking about the Tower steps?

Yes.
JP: Ah, OK.
DH: Yeah, that was Leopold's Records. But before it was Tower, it was Leopold's Records, and we used to sit around on these steps, which are not the steps. If you go to Berkeley and you were to talk about "the steps," they are steps prior to these which are actually on the B.C. Berkeley campus, where everybody used to hang out. But then we moved to our own steps, which were the steps in front of Leopold's Records at Durant., which became Tower, which now closed again because Tower doesn't exist.
JP: That is some deep knowledge.
DH: Yeah, that is some deep knowledge. We used to just sit there and, uh, sit there.

Did you guys ever live in a frat house?
DH: Yes, this was probably prior to us living in that frat house. I actually lived in two frat houses.

Were you in a frat house at that time?
JP: Yes, it was no longer a frat house, it was really just a kind of squat house, but a lot of people lived there from The Distillers, and Nick from Tiger Army. And we all kind of lived in the same house.

'Cause I had all these visions of you guys coming back from the shows, tip-toeing back through the frat house.
DH: No, both frat houses that I lived in and the frat house that we lived in together, there were no frat boys during our stay there until the very end, at the end of our frat house, which Matt Freeman used to refer to as "the squat." It wasn't technically a squat, but there were like, 22, 24 people living in this one house and it was communal living and it was disgusting and awful, but it's what we could afford. And right at the end of our stay there, the frat's charter got reinstated and frat boys started moving in. They couldn't kick out tenants who were there, but as soon as anybody moved out, they moved in frat boys.
JP: All of a sudden we were in an active frat, and it was a total bum-out.
DH: It was awful. It was cool, though. Well, one cool thing about it was that the — what's the frat leader called? The president of the frat or whatever, was gay. And he was secretly gay and he and his boyfriend used to have sex in the showers. Like, in the communal showers, and the rest of the frat boys didn't know, which was nice.

Winding up here, AFI. I would like to ask you about the last time we talked. I don't know if you remember, but the last time we talked in 2003.
JP: Was it 2003?
DH: We spoke… we spoke here?

On tape.
DH: Oh! OK.

The last time I talked to you, on tape, you told the people, Davey, you said, quote, "It's not cool to grab Davey's balls."
DH: It's true! Under any circumstances.

So, did people listen? Do people grab Davey's balls anymore at all, Jade?
JP: I don't know. Do people grab Davey's balls?
DH: Very rarely!

'Cause in that interview you said to the nation, you said to the world, "Don't grab my balls," in regards to an incident that happened in Edmonton, Alberta.
DH: Yes. I don't know if Italy happened after that… but that was not actually my balls, it was the other matter of, uh…
JP: At least, you know, get permission.
DH: Yeah. Which I'm not going to give you permission.

Did it help though? Did it help at all?
DH: Yes, I guess it did.

That public service announcement a few years ago did help.
DH: It did, yes, thank you.

And coming up you're going to be playing Summer Fest with Weird Al!
JP: What?

Weird Al and AFI together on a bill!
DH: That's fantastic.

Has anything ever happened like that? Isn't that the best?
DH: That is pretty much the best. I'm pretty excited.
JP: Nothing that good.
DH: No, nothing like that. He's really talented.

Have you guys heard about a book called My War: Killing Time In Iraq, by Colby Buzzell?
DH: Absolutely.
JP: I ran into Colby Buzzell a few weeks ago.

And he's like an ex-G.I. that used to go see AFI at Gilman and now has written an interesting book!
JP: He was a hardcore kid from the Bay area and he went to Iraq and, yeah, he wrote a book about it.
DH: Nick 13 and I were just talking about this the other day. We were looking for an article in Details that he's recently written. We were discussing how this was not his first stint at journalism. He used to do a zine called The Insubordinator back when we used to go to Gilman Street and it was fantastic. He used to interview AFI and a bunch of other bands all the time, but it was a great zine because it went contrary to the outlook. It was a very, very p.c. time in Berkeley and in the scene, and very, very extreme in retaliation to the conservatism of the '80s, which it was coming out of. So, it was very, very politically correct, and this zine wasn't. It took itself far less seriously than most of the scene and it was great. We loved it for it, because it was funny and people would just freak out over it. It was a good time.

Have you played for the troops at all? Have you been asked to play for the troops? Have you had many G.I.s coming to gigs and stuff?
JP: There's been some G.I.s. We never actually played for the troops.
DH: I mean, we've gotten some nice letters from G.I.s who say that our music has helped get them through that, which I'm sure is absolute hell.

People should check out that book, though.
DH: Yes, people should check out Colby's book, for sure.

And the 924 Gilman book as well!
DH: Which does have a connection, as tenuous as it may be, it does. They do have connections!

Basically, you could say there'd be no AFI if there wasn't Gilman, maybe?
DH: Well, AFI existed before, but...

We can go that far, right Jade?
JP: Yeah, I think that's totally accurate.
DH: I think that's 100 per cent accurate.

Well, thanks so much AFI. Anything else you want to add to the people out there at all?
DH: Milk kills.
JP: Thanks for treating us so well over the years, Canada. We'll be back!

No more ball-grabbing.
DH: Oh yes. Keep ball-grabbing at a minimum, thank you very much.

Come back in three years and see what happens. Well, thanks so much AFI. Keep on rocking in the free world and doot doola doot doo...
DH + JP: Doot doot!